After ascertaining over crystal that it was an okay time to do so, Nahariel shows up at Cyril's door with a pensive face (that breaks briefly into a warm smile and a greeting) and the offering of a nice chunk of aged wood she'd been saving ("for a puzzle box," she says), and barely waits to be invited in before she's perched on a chair, picking at a loose thread in her scarf with far too much concentration. Suddenly, she's looking at him with a level serious gaze and says, "Cyril... you know when someone needs to be hurt?"
She says "needs" in a way that means she's not talking about some asshole cruising for a bruising.
"How do you... do that... without really hurting them?"
Cyril looked pleased at the gift and had welcomed her into the house. Then, he heard her say the words and honestly wasn't sure for a moment that he had heard them correctly.
Of all the things she could have asked him, that was the last thing he would have imagined.
He seems surprised, but there isn't a hint of judgement in his face or tone. He also doesn't make her repeat herself or make a big deal of his surprise. Instead, he takes the question very seriously.
"That greatly depends on how they need to be hurt," he explained. "Do you prefer to be struck? Whipped? Cut?" A pause. "Spanked?"
Nari's eyes widen a bit, and then she waves a hand quickly to interrupt Cyril's thought process, "It's not about me," she says, her haste betraying less judgement of her own and more a desire to return to the subject she had in mind, "It's... about a friend." Which he was, she thought. "Who I'm... who I want to be safe. But they aren't right now, and I thought--" forcing the words out past the catch in her throat (the companion piece to her furious blush) was obviously taking a sincere effort. "--I thought I could help, and I thought you might know how."
Big breath in, out. She pulled her fingers purposefully away from the loose thread she'd been worrying and wrapped them around a knee, making herself look at Cyril.
"Whipped. But I'm not sure it's about liking so much as needing."
He is patient as she responds, waiting for her to recover before he continues. He nods, understanding what she means.
"The type of pain that they need is important, though. Because that changes what advise I give. Do you know if they prefer to be bound at the same time? Or any thing else particular?"
She shakes her head at that, hesitantly, and a run-of-the-mill wry little Nari smile cracks through her look of being utterly out of her depth. "This is one of those things you're supposed to talk about, isn't it. I was rather hoping you'd just know somehow."
She allows herself to bury her face in her hands and breathe for a brief but fulsome moment before straightening up, scrubbing a hand through her hair, and dropping her shoulders. "Okay. No. I don't know. I just... can't stand the idea of them being struck by a hand that doesn't care for them, even if it's their own."
Edited (can't stop won't stop) Date: 2018-02-13 06:35 am (UTC)
Cyril is about to make a smart remark about him 'just knowing' but then the last part makes him pause. He can't tease such a desire.
After a moment, he seems to consider a few things. "I can give you pointers for the most common things and some general rules about safety. Then, when you do discuss this with your friend the two of you can hash out their preferences in more detail and you'll likely have some idea of what they are talking about."
Then he offered her a reassuring smile. "And you can get all of your blushing out of the way now, so when they do talk to you about this you can feel more confident with the conversation."
"My red face is a renewable resource, I'm afraid," Nari says ruefully. She could have counted the times her cheeks had tingled this hotly on a single hand, not counting fevers; once with shame, twice with pride, twice with anger, and then suddenly all of that had come crashing down around a pair of wary blue eyes and a hesitant smile, and sometimes it made her want to scratch her face clean off.
Which is when she realizes she's been staring at her hands for... some... amount of time, and looks back up at Cyril.
"General pointers and rules about safety. Yes. That's... thank you, Cyril," Nari says, the low, full tone in which she expresses her gratitude conveying the true measure of it.
"The first safety rule is communication," Cyril reaffirmed. "You have to discuss what each of you want from the interaction, where you draw the line, what limitations and desire you both have. I know it sounds simple, but it cannot be stressed enough. You have to talk."
"You need to discuss not just what you want from it, but how you will communicate. Some people like the idea of... struggling. Of protesting. Sometimes a watchword is needed to make sure that everyone is protected."
Nari nodded slowly, her face intent as if she were trying to carve Cyril's words into her memory. The watchword part though; she bit at her lip and remembered. The scars on his back had looked ...angry. Not necessarily ill-taken care of, but as if every single one of them had been meant. They didn't seem the handiwork of a man who would ask her to stop. Who would want her to.
"What if they don't want to use one?" she asked slowly, "What if what they want is--I can't make--this is for them. I want to do right by them, even if that means--" Means what? Beating him barely conscious? Where was the line? She sighs heavily, apparently unable to form the thought coherently. Safety. Safety was the line. Mythal her witness she was not adding her own permanent threads to the brutal tapestry he'd spread across himself. "How do I know if it's not safe anymore? When to say no, even if that's not what they want?"
Cyril pressed his lips together and looked away from Nari for a moment, clearly thinking this over. Then, after taking a breath and coming to a decision, he focused back on her.
"Nahariel, I'm going to say something, and I don't want you to see it as a judgement. You are a grown woman and you can make your own choices," he started there because he didn't want her to think he was trying to tell her what to do. That was ultimately her choice.
"But... I wouldn't be with this person. As I said before, a major part of doing this is trust and communication. If you have good reason to believe that the person you are talking about can't share when they are reaching their limit, they aren't a good person to do this with. You need to be able to trust that your partner will talk to you when it's too much. If you can't, you might need to step away..." He needed to say that because what she had just told him raised some major red flags in his mind. He isn't sure that he could ever trust a partner like what she described.
"That said, if you are certain you still want to do this, I can tell you some signs to look for when it comes to physical damage and how a person responds when they are in this state... but you need to make sure that your emotional state is tended to as well. Part of that is being able to trust that your partner won't push you beyond what you are comfortable with. You, as the one giving the pain, are in just as much risk as the person receiving it."
Her first instinct was immediately defensive, but she marshaled it harshly. This was too important for half-nocked responses, and going in to such an arrangement blind to what it meant wouldn’t help either of them, so instead she dragged her fingers through her hair, breathed deeply and released it slowly in a quiet whistle through her teeth, looked up at the flickering light on the ceiling, and thought--really thought--about what Cyril had said.
Setting aside her deep guilt that he’d taken an arrow because of her—one of Sedi’s arrows—because that was no road to begin, walking away from what she’d seen would mean walking away from some deep wound, some truth that wasn’t hers to have. And walking away wouldn’t make him stop. It was very possible he wouldn't tell her when to stop because he didn't know what his limit was. As far as she could tell, Cade Harrimann didn't have limits his own body didn't enforce. Whether that was from some bright zeal that drove him ragged before it or from some reckless love affair with his own destruction didn't matter. Inside him there was something small, and tired, and scared, and so very very alone that it lanced through her heart, and that thing needed to learn it could be safe. Looked after. Protected until it could stand alone. If it was hubristic folly to think she could give that, then let it be folly. There was risk, yes, but it was a risk she could choose. A choice he didn't have anymore. It would hurt her more to turn away than to fail.
And so, staring at a ceiling built by men, she found herself making nearly the same fierce vow she had made almost two decades before, looking down at the precious child whose eyes had never seen fire; this time for a man whose eyes had never seen its lack.
This world will not touch you like that. Not again. Not while I stand.
She looked back at Cyril. "Tell me what to watch for."
He accepts that, because he had promised her that he wasn't judging her. He was willing to trust her and believe that she was ready to do this. She had come for help, not for him butting into her personal life. If she was going to do this, then he needed make sure that she could do so safely.
"Physically, you need to watch where you hit them. There are areas of the body that can take more abuse than others. The... fleshier bits? The arse, shoulders, arms, legs. Those are generally safe. You want to avoid anything around this area." He gestures towards around his kidneys in his front and back. "And if possible, try not to cross the wounds. It's easier if you can strike in slightly different places each time, rather than digging into the same wounds over and over. With whipping you want to avoid the face and neck whenever possible. You'll want to figure out how comfortable you are with blood, Nari. Because depending on the type of whip and how hard you strike them, the welts will open. You need to know if that's a stopping point for you."
He thinks, to figure out if he's missing anything. "I would practice beforehand too, so you understand the aim of the thing and how it feels in your arm. You can probably stuff a pillow or something and set it on the bed or whatever other surface you plan to use so you can have it be the same height. That way you'll know how best to move your arm, and how the whip moves. If you want, bring the whip to me before hand so I can look over the quality and type, make sure it will work for this."
He considers her for a moment, and bites his lip. "Are they going to be tied down when you do this? Because then we should talk about type of rope, and signs that it might be too tight or digging into them too much...?"
Some of Nari's seriousness shifts to relief when Cyril doesn't try to warn her off again (she needs to bring him something nicer than wood) and then back to a hint of her initial trepidation at his mention of types of whips and practice.
"Which type do you think might be best for a beginning? And where does one even obtain a whip for this purpose?" Probably Orlais. Or she could make one herself, given time to study one already made--although that would mean already having one.
"And... no, not tied. At least not now." she cuts herself off with a small self-conscious smile. "Cyril, please tell me if this is a bother. I don't... I didn't know anyone else to go to."
"Something of good quality should work. We might need to see about importing it. Unless your person has one they like," he answers her question first, but then focus on her concern.
"You aren't a bother, Nari. Honestly, I'm flattered that you would think to come to me and that you were comfortable enough to ask this. It means something that you want to go into this with both eyes open." He offers her a reassuring smile.
"Trust me, nothing could be more mortifying than how I found out about this stuff. I had the Crafter of Ashara Clan sit me down and give me a several days worth of education." He chuckles a bit. "Did you get a chance to meet her? Nomaya, very intimidating woman."
When he names Nomaya Nari nods, a grin breaking across her face, "I did. She's an accomplished woman. The lines of her work are so clean, but they move. Did she start you on your interest in the puzzle--" she bites her lip and then chuckles, pulling up her feet so her perch is cross legged, "Abelas, if we get started talking about art..." Well, she'd never stop. "But from her, truly? That must have been something. What spurred that particular set of lessons, if you don't mind my asking?" The idea that even Cyril had been a novice once was a comforting one.
He doesn't mind talking about it. He hopes it might help her feel more comfortable. Though it does show how stupid he had been.
"When I was sixteen I finally couldn't handle my desires anymore. I went out and found some humans. I think they were a mercenary group. I'm lucky they didn't kill me, honestly. But I let them do whatever they liked to me. It was... rather intense." He rubs the back of his neck in sheepishness as he admits that he did such a foolish thing.
"I came limping back to camp and she took one look at me and dragged me to her aravel. She claimed she was taking me to work on a project, but mostly she made sure I healed and spent a few days instructing me on how to properly do this stuff. Though her lessons included quite a lot about sex in general. I was a virgin before that... I really went about the whole thing in the most stupid way possible."
"But a good lesson on why it's important not to shove it all in a corner and let those feelings build like that if you can help it," Nari muses when he's finished with his story, trying not to think too much about what could very well have happened to him. "It wasn't stupid, Cyril. You wouldn't call a woman on the edge of starving eating whatever mushroom she could scrape from the ground stupid if she poisoned herself, would you? Reckless, maybe. Incautious. But not stupid." She pauses, nodding seriously. "I'm glad you were okay," she says, "I'm glad you have people now."
"And I'm glad you do too, to enable you to be safer and better educated when you go into it," Cyril replies with a warm smile. "Do you feel more confident now? We could still talk about how to tend to your person afterwards."
Nari snorts gently, raises her eyesbrows, and ruffles her hair again simultaneously, a faint disbelieving smile on her lips, "I can't say I am confident, but I could say more, yes. I'd like to be ready, but I've the feeling that there is no being ready. Not the first time. Not really." The thought is heavy on her, obviously. "I know there's no way to be good without practice, that that's the way of every craft, but I feel like I'm a green novice being handed an aged piece of ironbark heartwood and the arulin'holm when I've never even touched pine... and not only that, but that heartwood is trusting me to find its shape. I have to be--I can't--" Nari blows out a breath, her fingers picking at each other nervously, "--I can't be this nervous," she says, changing direction mid-thought, her vulnerability turning into wry observation. "I know I can't. I'd never manage the first swing. I just want... to do right by them." She lets that sit in the air a moment, and then nods and straightens her shoulders back up.
"Which does mean we should talk about afterwards then, yes."
He understands where she's coming from and after a moment he comes closer and touches her arm lightly. He wants to provide some kind of physical comfort to her, to let her know that she is stronger than she thinks.
"It's... different for everyone. But there's going to need to be some kind of care for both of you. You'll need it just as much as your partner. For me, I need my wounds tended and some kind of physical affection. Providing that affection usually helps my partner feel connected too.
Your person might need something else, though. That's another thing you should talk about in detail before. You'll need to have what you need nearby. I'd suggest having water on hand, clean bandages, possibly some potions or healing salve as well. If they know how they respond after a session, see if they can tell you. Some cry, or curl up, or shake. There's a lot going on in your mind and heart in that state and there's such an intense sense of release afterwards. Your emotions can get jumbled. You both will need to be prepared."
Despite not being much for casual physical connection, Cyril's touch on her arm is grounding rather than uncomfortable. Enough so that Nari reaches up to give his slim hand a brief squeeze of thanks. Listening to him explain what was necessary, what might be needed, it all seemed so intimate. Was so intimate. But despite that, she feels warm and clear--a feeling she vastly prefers to the feverish riot of uncertainty that made her face burn and her heart stutter. Perhaps it was that the things she felt had somewhere to go now. Perhaps it was the centering that having someone to care for had always given her. Either way, it was a gift.
"I will, as much as I can be," Nari says with a nod. "You've given me a lot to think about, and I'm grateful. Very much so."
She stretches a bit, unfolding her legs and lengthening them before setting her feet on the ground with a satisfied sigh; much lighter than any of her previous exhalations had been. "So, in the interest of preparation... who is it I'm meant to go place an order with?"
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action; (open to Sam and Kirk later?)
Date: 2018-02-09 05:03 pm (UTC)She says "needs" in a way that means she's not talking about some asshole cruising for a bruising.
"How do you... do that... without really hurting them?"
no subject
Date: 2018-02-13 05:43 am (UTC)Of all the things she could have asked him, that was the last thing he would have imagined.
He seems surprised, but there isn't a hint of judgement in his face or tone. He also doesn't make her repeat herself or make a big deal of his surprise. Instead, he takes the question very seriously.
"That greatly depends on how they need to be hurt," he explained. "Do you prefer to be struck? Whipped? Cut?" A pause. "Spanked?"
no subject
Date: 2018-02-13 06:10 am (UTC)Big breath in, out. She pulled her fingers purposefully away from the loose thread she'd been worrying and wrapped them around a knee, making herself look at Cyril.
"Whipped. But I'm not sure it's about liking so much as needing."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-13 06:15 am (UTC)"The type of pain that they need is important, though. Because that changes what advise I give. Do you know if they prefer to be bound at the same time? Or any thing else particular?"
no subject
Date: 2018-02-13 06:31 am (UTC)She allows herself to bury her face in her hands and breathe for a brief but fulsome moment before straightening up, scrubbing a hand through her hair, and dropping her shoulders. "Okay. No. I don't know. I just... can't stand the idea of them being struck by a hand that doesn't care for them, even if it's their own."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-20 02:54 am (UTC)After a moment, he seems to consider a few things. "I can give you pointers for the most common things and some general rules about safety. Then, when you do discuss this with your friend the two of you can hash out their preferences in more detail and you'll likely have some idea of what they are talking about."
Then he offered her a reassuring smile. "And you can get all of your blushing out of the way now, so when they do talk to you about this you can feel more confident with the conversation."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-20 03:24 am (UTC)Which is when she realizes she's been staring at her hands for... some... amount of time, and looks back up at Cyril.
"General pointers and rules about safety. Yes. That's... thank you, Cyril," Nari says, the low, full tone in which she expresses her gratitude conveying the true measure of it.
no subject
Date: 2018-02-20 04:16 am (UTC)"You need to discuss not just what you want from it, but how you will communicate. Some people like the idea of... struggling. Of protesting. Sometimes a watchword is needed to make sure that everyone is protected."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-20 04:58 am (UTC)"What if they don't want to use one?" she asked slowly, "What if what they want is--I can't make--this is for them. I want to do right by them, even if that means--" Means what? Beating him barely conscious? Where was the line? She sighs heavily, apparently unable to form the thought coherently. Safety. Safety was the line. Mythal her witness she was not adding her own permanent threads to the brutal tapestry he'd spread across himself. "How do I know if it's not safe anymore? When to say no, even if that's not what they want?"
no subject
Date: 2018-02-21 02:24 am (UTC)"Nahariel, I'm going to say something, and I don't want you to see it as a judgement. You are a grown woman and you can make your own choices," he started there because he didn't want her to think he was trying to tell her what to do. That was ultimately her choice.
"But... I wouldn't be with this person. As I said before, a major part of doing this is trust and communication. If you have good reason to believe that the person you are talking about can't share when they are reaching their limit, they aren't a good person to do this with. You need to be able to trust that your partner will talk to you when it's too much. If you can't, you might need to step away..." He needed to say that because what she had just told him raised some major red flags in his mind. He isn't sure that he could ever trust a partner like what she described.
"That said, if you are certain you still want to do this, I can tell you some signs to look for when it comes to physical damage and how a person responds when they are in this state... but you need to make sure that your emotional state is tended to as well. Part of that is being able to trust that your partner won't push you beyond what you are comfortable with. You, as the one giving the pain, are in just as much risk as the person receiving it."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-21 05:19 am (UTC)Setting aside her deep guilt that he’d taken an arrow because of her—one of Sedi’s arrows—because that was no road to begin, walking away from what she’d seen would mean walking away from some deep wound, some truth that wasn’t hers to have. And walking away wouldn’t make him stop. It was very possible he wouldn't tell her when to stop because he didn't know what his limit was. As far as she could tell, Cade Harrimann didn't have limits his own body didn't enforce. Whether that was from some bright zeal that drove him ragged before it or from some reckless love affair with his own destruction didn't matter. Inside him there was something small, and tired, and scared, and so very very alone that it lanced through her heart, and that thing needed to learn it could be safe. Looked after. Protected until it could stand alone. If it was hubristic folly to think she could give that, then let it be folly. There was risk, yes, but it was a risk she could choose. A choice he didn't have anymore. It would hurt her more to turn away than to fail.
And so, staring at a ceiling built by men, she found herself making nearly the same fierce vow she had made almost two decades before, looking down at the precious child whose eyes had never seen fire; this time for a man whose eyes had never seen its lack.
This world will not touch you like that. Not again. Not while I stand.
She looked back at Cyril. "Tell me what to watch for."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-21 05:37 am (UTC)"Physically, you need to watch where you hit them. There are areas of the body that can take more abuse than others. The... fleshier bits? The arse, shoulders, arms, legs. Those are generally safe. You want to avoid anything around this area." He gestures towards around his kidneys in his front and back. "And if possible, try not to cross the wounds. It's easier if you can strike in slightly different places each time, rather than digging into the same wounds over and over. With whipping you want to avoid the face and neck whenever possible. You'll want to figure out how comfortable you are with blood, Nari. Because depending on the type of whip and how hard you strike them, the welts will open. You need to know if that's a stopping point for you."
He thinks, to figure out if he's missing anything. "I would practice beforehand too, so you understand the aim of the thing and how it feels in your arm. You can probably stuff a pillow or something and set it on the bed or whatever other surface you plan to use so you can have it be the same height. That way you'll know how best to move your arm, and how the whip moves. If you want, bring the whip to me before hand so I can look over the quality and type, make sure it will work for this."
He considers her for a moment, and bites his lip. "Are they going to be tied down when you do this? Because then we should talk about type of rope, and signs that it might be too tight or digging into them too much...?"
no subject
Date: 2018-02-21 07:12 am (UTC)"Which type do you think might be best for a beginning? And where does one even obtain a whip for this purpose?" Probably Orlais. Or she could make one herself, given time to study one already made--although that would mean already having one.
"And... no, not tied. At least not now." she cuts herself off with a small self-conscious smile. "Cyril, please tell me if this is a bother. I don't... I didn't know anyone else to go to."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-22 02:07 am (UTC)"You aren't a bother, Nari. Honestly, I'm flattered that you would think to come to me and that you were comfortable enough to ask this. It means something that you want to go into this with both eyes open." He offers her a reassuring smile.
"Trust me, nothing could be more mortifying than how I found out about this stuff. I had the Crafter of Ashara Clan sit me down and give me a several days worth of education." He chuckles a bit. "Did you get a chance to meet her? Nomaya, very intimidating woman."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-22 02:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-02-22 03:09 am (UTC)"When I was sixteen I finally couldn't handle my desires anymore. I went out and found some humans. I think they were a mercenary group. I'm lucky they didn't kill me, honestly. But I let them do whatever they liked to me. It was... rather intense." He rubs the back of his neck in sheepishness as he admits that he did such a foolish thing.
"I came limping back to camp and she took one look at me and dragged me to her aravel. She claimed she was taking me to work on a project, but mostly she made sure I healed and spent a few days instructing me on how to properly do this stuff. Though her lessons included quite a lot about sex in general. I was a virgin before that... I really went about the whole thing in the most stupid way possible."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-22 03:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 02:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 04:32 am (UTC)"Which does mean we should talk about afterwards then, yes."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 05:03 am (UTC)"It's... different for everyone. But there's going to need to be some kind of care for both of you. You'll need it just as much as your partner. For me, I need my wounds tended and some kind of physical affection. Providing that affection usually helps my partner feel connected too.
Your person might need something else, though. That's another thing you should talk about in detail before. You'll need to have what you need nearby. I'd suggest having water on hand, clean bandages, possibly some potions or healing salve as well. If they know how they respond after a session, see if they can tell you. Some cry, or curl up, or shake. There's a lot going on in your mind and heart in that state and there's such an intense sense of release afterwards. Your emotions can get jumbled. You both will need to be prepared."
no subject
Date: 2018-02-23 06:37 am (UTC)"I will, as much as I can be," Nari says with a nod. "You've given me a lot to think about, and I'm grateful. Very much so."
She stretches a bit, unfolding her legs and lengthening them before setting her feet on the ground with a satisfied sigh; much lighter than any of her previous exhalations had been. "So, in the interest of preparation... who is it I'm meant to go place an order with?"